Defects in Polish Sighthounds

Re: MIOT I Arcturus

Postprzez Lea » poniedziaÅ‚ek, 1 czerwca 2009, 08:43

I'd like to see also pictures of Iblis and Infant, then the litter is complete ;)

Generally, not especially concerning this litter I'd say that the future breeding value doesn't lie only on the outer appearance of a certain litter. In the case of the CP if we now ignore long hair there are also some other defects that in most cases prevent breeding. They are cryptorchidism, losses in dentation, weak lower jaw, defects in bite etc.

And the last but not least, problems in temperament.
Lea
 
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Dołączył(a): poniedziałek, 23 czerwca 2008, 21:10

Re: MIOT I Arcturus

Postprzez MarcinH » poniedziaÅ‚ek, 1 czerwca 2009, 09:16

I don't undarstand how this is connected with litter I Arcturus. This was first litter in history of CP where both parents have examinated hearth and eyes, in this litter all dogs ( and parents as well ) have very strong lower jaw ( much stronger then other CP ), no any defects of bit between 10 puppies , no notice of cryptorchidism between puppies in this litter .In this litter is no puppies with long hair. In my opinion dogs from this litter are excelent to connect in breeding with fresh blood dogs, becouse they are very typical for breed . Especialy that last years apeared in breed few dogs completly untypical for breed. Inbreed coaficient in this litter is only 6,6 % , so is very low in our breed. I think that litter I is very good example that is possible to breed healthy dogs with very good outer appearance. All defects which you mention ( wrong bit, weak jaw,cryptorchidisim ... ) are defects of exterier so , I cannot imagine how anybody can tell that dogs is looking good with such defects ?
MarcinH
 
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Dołączył(a): poniedziałek, 26 maja 2008, 22:31
Lokalizacja: Grochowice/ k.GÅ‚ogowa

Re: MIOT I Arcturus

Postprzez Lea » poniedziaÅ‚ek, 1 czerwca 2009, 11:48

Marcin, I wrote "generally" when we are speaking of a litter, looking at pictures isn't just always enough ;) . I mean that there are plenty of other aspects that prevent breeding, such as those I mentioned above.

I have tried to get some information about the frequency of these defects in the breed in general, but it's very difficult to get one.

Therefore in my opinion statistics should be made about this kind of incompetencies in every litter born now and in the future, so that breeders who are going to be engaged to the breed had the important base to build on. These defects for example don't get too much attention, because they don't necessarily kill or disable the dog, but they are easy to see, so gathering statistics wouldn't be impossible?

Or is such kind of statistics available somewhere? Is that topic in general discussed within the breed?
Lea
 
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Dołączył(a): poniedziałek, 23 czerwca 2008, 21:10

Re: MIOT I Arcturus

Postprzez tulpar » poniedziaÅ‚ek, 1 czerwca 2009, 12:34

Lea, I cannot see any link between your statement and the Arcturus I litter. If you are interested in discussing CP defects, please set up a topic and invite people to discuss it. There is also an English section in this forum, so feel free to use it.

Discussing the above mentioned defects in this section might suggest they are problems of the I litter. If it is so, please say it openly, if not - pass your statements to other section as already said.

Thank you for your cooperation.
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Re: MIOT I Arcturus

Postprzez MarcinH » poniedziaÅ‚ek, 1 czerwca 2009, 17:02

Ad Lea
I undarstand your point of view, but I'm afraid that is not any way to open discustion about such defects in our breed.
At first CP breeders in 90 % don't undarstand what mind defects about which you are talking and are not intersting to learn ( at least in Poland) . Other 10 % are cooperating privatly and privatly exchanging information. Any public disustion have ALWAYS this same end ''WAR''.
At second Who should made it ? Privat kennel ?
I want only pay your attention of Hearth and Eyes examination between CP . We start it in our kennel , we push other to do it, we push CP Club to promote it and now we know about many dogs who made such examination and are not passing result to CP CLub , or on public forum. Many dogs connected very close with ill dogs was not examinated, few of them even was use in breeding . How is possilbe cooperation in CP breed ?

And finaly I'm , agree with Tulpar that good idea is to move such topic in other place , becouse discustion in this place are sugestion that you know about some defects in our Litter I .
Sorry this is working like this in our country and this is common weapon to discredit some kennels on public forums ;-(
MarcinH
 
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Dołączył(a): poniedziałek, 26 maja 2008, 22:31
Lokalizacja: Grochowice/ k.GÅ‚ogowa

Re: MIOT I Arcturus

Postprzez Lea » poniedziaÅ‚ek, 1 czerwca 2009, 21:31

Lea, I cannot see any link between your statement and the Arcturus I litter. If you are interested in discussing CP defects, please set up a topic and invite people to discuss it. There is also an English section in this forum, so feel free to use it.



It isn't a question of Arcturus I litter especially, but of the breed as a whole. Excuse me for making a confusion.

And thank you for the hint.
Lea
 
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Dołączył(a): poniedziałek, 23 czerwca 2008, 21:10

Re: MIOT I Arcturus

Postprzez Lea » poniedziaÅ‚ek, 1 czerwca 2009, 22:01

Ad Lea
I undarstand your point of view, but I'm afraid that is not any way to open discustion about such defects in our breed.
At first CP breeders in 90 % don't undarstand what mind defects about which you are talking and are not intersting to learn ( at least in Poland) . Other 10 % are cooperating privatly and privatly exchanging information. Any public disustion have ALWAYS this same end ''WAR''.


Ok. There isn't so much to do then.

I want only pay your attention of Hearth and Eyes examination between CP . We start it in our kennel , we push other to do it, we push CP Club to promote it and now we know about many dogs who made such examination and are not passing result to CP CLub , or on public forum. Many dogs connected very close with ill dogs was not examinated, few of them even was use in breeding . How is possilbe cooperation in CP breed ?



Of course I understand that "one thing at a time" and I highly appreciate the work of many private kennels. But sometimes I also feel that in a rare breed wins and losses are common. For each succesful litter there is always one somewhere that is fully unsuccesful. We are, of course, happy for the former one, but should be responsible for the latter one alike.

To prevent or minimalize the effects of these losses we should need discussion. Not in English, unfortunately ;)

And finaly I'm , agree with Tulpar that good idea is to move such topic in other place , becouse discustion in this place are sugestion that you know about some defects in our Litter I .


I believe you now understand that the question wasn't about the litter I.
Lea
 
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Dołączył(a): poniedziałek, 23 czerwca 2008, 21:10

Re: MIOT I Arcturus

Postprzez MarcinH » wtorek, 2 czerwca 2009, 11:25

Lea napisał(a):I believe you now understand that the question wasn't about the litter I.


I undarstand it Lea very well, but from my experience I know that others don't undarstand it ;-(
If you are able to start any discustion in this matter I will apraciate it . From experience I know that nobady is interesting in it at least nobady who is also breeding Chart Polski
MarcinH
 
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Dołączył(a): poniedziałek, 26 maja 2008, 22:31
Lokalizacja: Grochowice/ k.GÅ‚ogowa

Re: Defects in Polish Sighthounds

Postprzez Lea » Å›roda, 3 czerwca 2009, 10:26

The results of the health inquiry that was made in 2005 here are reported here:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/chartpolski/summary.htm

If someone is interested in the questionnaire form in English, please contact me.
Lea
 
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Dołączył(a): poniedziałek, 23 czerwca 2008, 21:10


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